Curse

Desecration Station · Aug 03, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I'm tired of everyone saying to work around it and find a way to counter it. It finally happened and someone has finally taken it too far.

Those of you that haven't encountered the infamous 'heal ball' then you have no idea what I'm talking about. Those of you that have, were probably forced to leave cause there was no overcoming it.

Simply put, a group of rangers mass together and cave themselves in by spamming spirits. They keep all their spirits and themselves alive by using heal spring. Sometimes the spirit spamming gets so bad that you can't even hurt the actual people inside.

I'm sorry but I'm tired of fighting my way in HoH with a group until we come across this build. Everyone in the team automatically knows that we have to quit, cause there's simply no beating that.

Solution? Simple. I don't think Nature's Renewal needs to be made an elite, but something must be done to all this spirit spamming.

For one I think that spirits (since they are translucent in their nature) should not impede travel. It's a damn spirit.. you should be able to walk through it.

Second of all.. you shouldn't be able to spam spirits. You shouldn't be able to drop a spirit until after the first one is gone. It just doesn't make any sense to me how this was overlooked.

Timoz · Aug 03, 2005, 02:02 AM // 02:02

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, delete this thread ffs.

Look at the god damn forums, look at the god damn posts on this topic, reply and moan on them STOP starting a new one. Can a forum moderator please say something about all these threads on the same topic!!!!! Unless you want half a section of one of your forums taken up by complaining about NR and spirits?

One more thing, not just rangers using healing ball, its more effective with warriors try playing in the hall of heroes and being body blocked 3 times out of 4 consecutively with a healing ball and balth bloody aura.

Desecration Station · Aug 03, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

You obviously haven't come across this kind of group. Or worse yet, you're a participant.

This thread has nothing to do with Nature's Renewal. It has everything to do with a certain aspect of the game being exploited to the max. If it takes multiple threads for it to be acknowledged by the devs then so be it. I'm a ranger myself, a trapper ranger, and it makes me sick to see what rangers are used for now.

Imp · Aug 03, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

they just need to raise the energy and recast time.

Timoz · Aug 03, 2005, 02:22 AM // 02:22

I believe they call it strategy its part of playing in a strategy game.

People use this strategy because its a good strategy and its a strategy which works. Yes, i use this strategy, recently infact im noticing people are becoming more adept at countering it, its not invincible otherwise it wouldnt be there in the first place, let the devs decide. Notice my emphasis on the word strategy there.

The devs will of course notice it, they don't make a game and not monitor what goes on in the main tournament of their own game.

I'm sure they won't need telling in multiple threads the same thing over and over again.

Aaaaagh · Aug 03, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timoz

I believe they call it strategy its part of playing in a strategy game.

People use this strategy because its a good strategy and its a strategy which works. Yes, i use this strategy, recently infact im noticing people are becoming more adept at countering it, its not invincible otherwise it wouldnt be there in the first place, let the devs decide. Notice my emphasis on the word strategy there.

The devs will of course notice it, they don't make a game and not monitor what goes on in the main tournament of their own game.

I'm sure they won't need telling in multiple threads the same thing over and over again.

Strategy fails to be strategy once it becomes imbalanced. This only applies to video games, of course.

I feel the need to give an example. Lets say we are playing my favorite game, AAAAAGHWars. Now, this game is 100% balanced(riiiight, thats possible), and its way more fun than GW, btw. Alright, I have a skill called NUKE!. You have a bunch of great skills too, like dart toss, duck and cover etc...but that doesnt much matter. When you play, you get to play vs other players, you usually do pretty good (you have really mastered the 'snake throw'). Then you come against me, and I just use my NUKE! on you.

Eventually, after getting NUKE!ed a few hundred times, you get frustrated. You come to the AAAAAGHWarsGuru board and suggest an idea to balance the skill. Of course, I reply with WTF! Loser, STFU, its called strategy, Im using strategy!!!

Yeah, you could just conform, and be whatever class gets NUKE!, but you like your class, you like diversity.

Get it? I got more examples...

Warskull · Aug 03, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Just have fertile season stop affecting spirits. Giving all spirits +250 hp and +10 armor really makes taking one down before another goes up difficult.

For the most part spirit spam is fine. Just a few loop holes need closed. The big ones are fertile season affecting other spirits and nature's renewal destroying all enchants upon cast and being so spammable.

Kaospryx · Aug 03, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timoz

I believe they call it strategy its part of playing in a strategy game.

People use this strategy because its a good strategy and its a strategy which works. Yes, i use this strategy, recently infact im noticing people are becoming more adept at countering it, its not invincible otherwise it wouldnt be there in the first place, let the devs decide. Notice my emphasis on the word strategy there.

The devs will of course notice it, they don't make a game and not monitor what goes on in the main tournament of their own game.

I'm sure they won't need telling in multiple threads the same thing over and over again.

People use this strategy because it is difficult to counter. Note the subtlety, I know it's difficult for you since you fail to read half the things I say. DIFFICULT, not IMPOSSIBLE. It's obvious that you flame and trash every post on this topic because you lack the coruscation and STRATEGY to develop another efficient ranger pvp build. Notice my emphasis on the word strategy here. If you don't have anything constructive to say and add to the discussion, other than flames, then don't say it. I'm sure YOU won't need telling in multiple threads the same thing over and over again.

Hate · Aug 03, 2005, 03:25 AM // 03:25

I have recently come across one of these groups and it PISSED me off! However we waited them out and won, it was excrutiatingly maddening, I hope they do something about it too.

Rossaroni · Aug 03, 2005, 04:52 AM // 04:52

I've won against 1 spirit group, and I was in a spiker group. The key is to split them up, create chaos, take the control out of their hands. Tip: Cry of Frustration.

Regardless, a bit of balancing should be done towards spirit spamming in my opinion. A few valid solutions have been presented already.

BigTru · Aug 03, 2005, 06:14 AM // 06:14

If something needs to be done about Spirit groups, then something needs to be done about Spike Groups and Smite Groups.

Nature's Renewal destroys the effectiveness of your Profession? Ha! Welcome to the Warriors world.

Just a few skills that Warriors have to look out for:
Throw Dirt
Dust Trap
Ineptitude
Glimmering Mark
Eruption
Belly Smash
Fainthartedness
Spirit Shackles
Insidious Parasite
Price of Failure
Shadow of Fear
Spiteful Spirit
Tainted Flesh
Blinding Flash
Ward Against Melee
Armor of Frost
Blurred Vision
Magnetic Aura
Aegis
Guardian
Pascifism
Amnity
Shield of Judgement
Bane Signet
Feral Lunge
Lightning Reflexes
Dryder's Defence
Whirling Defence
Axe Twist
Devastating Hammer
Bonneti's Defence
Gladiator's Defence
Disciplined Stance
Defence Stance
Shield Stance
Riposte
Deadly Riposte

Ya know, just to name a few...

I hear by declare these all need nerfing. Better get to work A.Net

Red Sonya · Aug 03, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Look Rangers already get pindown, apply poison, poison arrow and quick shot, they certainly don't need to put all these spirits out there. It's not a strategy, it's an exploit of the mechanics of the skills. It needs to be looked at and adjusted. 15 jillion spirits out there in an arena is rediculous.

entropy · Aug 03, 2005, 06:58 AM // 06:58

lol in arena i had this sprit spammer spam around 50+ spirits in one match i was the monk and we lost due to the fact that someone ran out of range and i tried to heal them and then i was out of range... It was nice 2 i had 1000+ health lol. And yes rangers get spirits 2 bad deal with it. Pin down its like hamstring... apply poison wow great necro's get to spread disease still 4 degen quick shot is kinda like frenzy and after all bows have a slower attack speed. God There is already 80,000+ threads about nerfing the hell out of EVERYTHING nr is overpowered i agree but complainging about spirit spamming come on...
If it kills you in an arena you know what i realize people do now? they come here and whine and complain it needs to be nerfed : (

SOT · Aug 03, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Spirit spam?

What the hell?

Of all the idiotic....

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. You whiners out there are saying there are teams of people, ranger/monk (?) or some variant on ranger who use those mentioned skills to create a "heal ball" to avoid losing a battle by basically being godlike in their ability to take damage while shooting your small braincase out?

This is against the game design and rules how?

"You don't want any deathsticks,I want to go home and rethink my life"

eternal_drake · Aug 03, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Snip.

You forgot Empathy =p

Born · Aug 03, 2005, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Take a walk outside of the first mission past Droknars, theres about twenty ice imps out there all spamming level 20-25 (guessing) mealstrom at you. Its not very creative but it does kill you pretty fast.

The game encourages and even shows you how to use spam groups, not complaining just pointing it out.

Como Fort · Aug 03, 2005, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Well people can have the exact same arguement for Smiting groups. I really don't see the difference here? If something has to be done about the spirits, then something should be done about the smiting. Thats understandable, right?

PieXags · Aug 03, 2005, 10:08 AM // 10:08

It wouldn't be so bad if it took some skill to spirit spam and be affective. The part that pisses me off most is that anyone, no matter how new to the game, can read through the descriptions of the spirits, and spam the hell out of them, simple as that. There's no skill or strategy involved in spirit spamming, I mean hell why the hell would we call it spirit spamming if it did? It's not the same as mass health-degen with a necro (or some rangers), because you actually have to be on the ball and keep track of things, whereas in a spirit spamming group...just spam spirits, it'll make you near invincible. I know because a new member to our guild a few days ago, new to the game, just wanted to PvP, just unlocked those skills...and was just as successful as me who's been playing since the games release and in the betas. Just kinda pisses me off at all, it doesn't take talent to spam every skill in your skill slot.

Spirits are basically like immobile minions like necromancers have. There still hard as **** to take down if you've an army of them, only difference is they don't attack on their own, they just make a solid wall and affect the battlefield. Only unlike necro minions that depend on bodies, ranger spirits don't depend on corpses, or anything of the sort. They can spam and spam and spam as much as they want.

Como Fort · Aug 03, 2005, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Well obviously A.Net or whatever don't mind or they wouldn't of made spirits in the first place. Don't you think the developers think of these problems in advance, and don't you also think that it really is up to them what happens? IMO, I think they will stick to what they created because they obviously like it just the way it is. It was created that way.

Imp · Aug 03, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Well obviously A.Net or whatever don't mind or they wouldn't of made spirits in the first place. Don't you think the developers think of these problems in advance, and don't you also think that it really is up to them what happens? IMO, I think they will stick to what they created because they obviously like it just the way it is. It was created that way.

until 75% of the games population hates that idea, you would think that would change it right? And this is not just talking about spirits. Spirits annoy me too but I'm happy rangers are at least getting some love.

Like I said before, don't limit the amount or anything, all they need is a raise in energy and recast time. The recast time should be 90 seconds, around the amount of time they live. And the energy cost raised (if dust trap can be 25 energy why can't some of the spirits). Thus them needing to raise more points into expertise. The fact that they all cost 5 energy makes it so they don't really need points into expertise. With the right group, you can still spam and still be effective.